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	<title>Comments on: Jim Collins on Corvallis</title>
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	<link>http://www.welovecorvallis.com/2010/01/jim-collins-on-corvallis/</link>
	<description>Lets talk openly and honestly together about this city we love.</description>
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		<title>By: Bill Ford</title>
		<link>http://www.welovecorvallis.com/2010/01/jim-collins-on-corvallis/comment-page-1/#comment-997</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 04:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovecorvallis.com/?p=564#comment-997</guid>
		<description>Of course I agree with you Fred on most all points. I do think we have consensus and can have consensus on many major &quot;issues&quot; or &quot;problems&quot; and one I feel strongly about is affordable housing. We moved here in 1985 and we did not have a point person or agency for affordable housing.  We attended several organizational meeting for Corvallis Neighborhood Housing the early forerunner of the current non-profit working to expand affordable housing.  We have made a lot of progress since 1985 but we still have a long ways to go.  Neither Corvallis nor Rome was built in a day but it gives me hope when we can at least create a written vision, even if by a few, and then attempt to accomplish what we can of it and adjust it with consensus as we go.  I like to work and having a job, earning my way has always seemed important it is one of the reasons I give so much time to this task. I don&#039;t automatically lump jobs and growth together but I do lump jobs and job diversity with a healthy and vital community.  Thank you for your service.  Anyone who wants to read the 2020 Vision Statement certainly can.  It is something to plan toward for awhile longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I agree with you Fred on most all points. I do think we have consensus and can have consensus on many major &#8220;issues&#8221; or &#8220;problems&#8221; and one I feel strongly about is affordable housing. We moved here in 1985 and we did not have a point person or agency for affordable housing.  We attended several organizational meeting for Corvallis Neighborhood Housing the early forerunner of the current non-profit working to expand affordable housing.  We have made a lot of progress since 1985 but we still have a long ways to go.  Neither Corvallis nor Rome was built in a day but it gives me hope when we can at least create a written vision, even if by a few, and then attempt to accomplish what we can of it and adjust it with consensus as we go.  I like to work and having a job, earning my way has always seemed important it is one of the reasons I give so much time to this task. I don&#8217;t automatically lump jobs and growth together but I do lump jobs and job diversity with a healthy and vital community.  Thank you for your service.  Anyone who wants to read the 2020 Vision Statement certainly can.  It is something to plan toward for awhile longer.</p>
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		<title>By: chrisnordyke</title>
		<link>http://www.welovecorvallis.com/2010/01/jim-collins-on-corvallis/comment-page-1/#comment-996</link>
		<dc:creator>chrisnordyke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 03:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovecorvallis.com/?p=564#comment-996</guid>
		<description>Point taken on Jim&#039;s use of &quot;violent&quot;. Passionate works fine for me.
I&#039;m not sure the &quot;people&quot; actually spoke with regards to the URD. Frankly, not enough people heard about it and/or understood it, much like the overall community&#039;s lack of knowledge about Vision 2010/20. 
WeLoveCorvallis is trying to be a mainstream source of data, discussion and commentary on these important issues, that otherwise don&#039;t seem to hit people&#039;s radar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point taken on Jim&#8217;s use of &#8220;violent&#8221;. Passionate works fine for me.<br />
I&#8217;m not sure the &#8220;people&#8221; actually spoke with regards to the URD. Frankly, not enough people heard about it and/or understood it, much like the overall community&#8217;s lack of knowledge about Vision 2010/20.<br />
WeLoveCorvallis is trying to be a mainstream source of data, discussion and commentary on these important issues, that otherwise don&#8217;t seem to hit people&#8217;s radar.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Kane</title>
		<link>http://www.welovecorvallis.com/2010/01/jim-collins-on-corvallis/comment-page-1/#comment-994</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Kane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovecorvallis.com/?p=564#comment-994</guid>
		<description>Bill, I am watching a TV documentary on the War in Vietnam and as an Air Force veteran with one tour of duty in SEA I have to second your choice of &quot;passionately&quot; rather than &quot;violently.&quot;  Not that I come close to your qualifications on this topic, but my own experience leaves me uncomfortable with the &quot;violently&quot; characterization.  Passionately is a much much better choice!

As I engage in my work in the community I am reminded again and again by those that I would call &quot;people in positions of power and influence&quot; of the Vision 2010 statement  and then of the 2020 statement, but always by those who were involved in their writing.  Otherwise the &quot;ordinary&quot; (I use that word with some reticence) citizens of Corvallis probably couldn&#039;t care less about either one.   

Does either represent the &quot;will of the people&quot;?  I suspect not.  It is the consensus of what  I think is the relatively small number of citizens those involved in the processes of writing them.   I don&#039;t discount them for that or their work, but simply remember that most people probably can&#039;t tell you a thing about either one or even recall hearing of them.  

I think that many many people can agree that two of the issues we face are jobs and housing.  We have lost jobs and now have fewer jobs than we did a decade or two ago.  We have a significant lack of what I call affordable adequate housing for people who are middle income earners and lower waged workers.   When I moved here to work in Corvallis I was shocked at home prices.  Good for home owners and for property investors.  Not good for a lot of working class people. 

I remain convinced that affordable working class housing is a critical issue for Corvallis and that job creation isn&#039;t going to happen in any significant way until homes become more affordable.  But, I am not convinced that &quot;the people&quot; want job creation.  Job creation means more traffic, possibly more non-local retail, more stress on public transportation, threats to green open space, and what some consider the desired liveability of Corvallis.

I think that I can talk about the problems more easily than I can talk about solutions!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, I am watching a TV documentary on the War in Vietnam and as an Air Force veteran with one tour of duty in SEA I have to second your choice of &#8220;passionately&#8221; rather than &#8220;violently.&#8221;  Not that I come close to your qualifications on this topic, but my own experience leaves me uncomfortable with the &#8220;violently&#8221; characterization.  Passionately is a much much better choice!</p>
<p>As I engage in my work in the community I am reminded again and again by those that I would call &#8220;people in positions of power and influence&#8221; of the Vision 2010 statement  and then of the 2020 statement, but always by those who were involved in their writing.  Otherwise the &#8220;ordinary&#8221; (I use that word with some reticence) citizens of Corvallis probably couldn&#8217;t care less about either one.   </p>
<p>Does either represent the &#8220;will of the people&#8221;?  I suspect not.  It is the consensus of what  I think is the relatively small number of citizens those involved in the processes of writing them.   I don&#8217;t discount them for that or their work, but simply remember that most people probably can&#8217;t tell you a thing about either one or even recall hearing of them.  </p>
<p>I think that many many people can agree that two of the issues we face are jobs and housing.  We have lost jobs and now have fewer jobs than we did a decade or two ago.  We have a significant lack of what I call affordable adequate housing for people who are middle income earners and lower waged workers.   When I moved here to work in Corvallis I was shocked at home prices.  Good for home owners and for property investors.  Not good for a lot of working class people. </p>
<p>I remain convinced that affordable working class housing is a critical issue for Corvallis and that job creation isn&#8217;t going to happen in any significant way until homes become more affordable.  But, I am not convinced that &#8220;the people&#8221; want job creation.  Job creation means more traffic, possibly more non-local retail, more stress on public transportation, threats to green open space, and what some consider the desired liveability of Corvallis.</p>
<p>I think that I can talk about the problems more easily than I can talk about solutions!</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Ford</title>
		<link>http://www.welovecorvallis.com/2010/01/jim-collins-on-corvallis/comment-page-1/#comment-993</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 05:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovecorvallis.com/?p=564#comment-993</guid>
		<description>We have a good 2020 Vision statement approved by the City Council.  We had a good 2010 Vision statement that didn&#039;t see the light of day in that it wasn&#039;t approved by the City Council.  A lot of bright motivated people worked on both of those documents.  I am not sure any cases were stated &quot;violently&quot; nor do I think they need to be.  I think passionately making one&#039;s case fits consensus better. Having spent 20 years on active duty with the Marines I believe I have a perspective of &quot;violence&quot;.  I agree with Fred in that what might work in business might not be applicable in moving a city forward.  The voters have spoken on the issue of the urban renewal district. The &quot;then what&quot; is we follow the will of the majority much to my dislike.  Demotivated? You bet, but not for long, as there is way too much work to do keep Corvallis and this area the great place it already has become.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have a good 2020 Vision statement approved by the City Council.  We had a good 2010 Vision statement that didn&#8217;t see the light of day in that it wasn&#8217;t approved by the City Council.  A lot of bright motivated people worked on both of those documents.  I am not sure any cases were stated &#8220;violently&#8221; nor do I think they need to be.  I think passionately making one&#8217;s case fits consensus better. Having spent 20 years on active duty with the Marines I believe I have a perspective of &#8220;violence&#8221;.  I agree with Fred in that what might work in business might not be applicable in moving a city forward.  The voters have spoken on the issue of the urban renewal district. The &#8220;then what&#8221; is we follow the will of the majority much to my dislike.  Demotivated? You bet, but not for long, as there is way too much work to do keep Corvallis and this area the great place it already has become.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Kane</title>
		<link>http://www.welovecorvallis.com/2010/01/jim-collins-on-corvallis/comment-page-1/#comment-992</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Kane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 04:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovecorvallis.com/?p=564#comment-992</guid>
		<description>Collins seems to me to be echoing a key Intel Corporation employee value called, &quot;Disagree and commit!&quot;  What I hear him saying is that in organizations on the way down there is no strong disagreement.  Intel stresses the importance of disagreement - presenting your reasoned case for X  and presenting it to whoever needs to hear it and then once a decision is made the employee commits to the result - no matter what it may be.  

In other words you can violently disagree basing your case on the facts as you know them, but you remain within the organization even if your case isn&#039;t adopted by the organization.

I&#039;m not sure that is fully transferable to a community.  Granted, a community is an organization, in a sense.  But, Corvallis, like any city lacks shared vision and values.  Corvallis doesn&#039;t have a mission as an organization (at least a good one) does.  When you&#039;re a voluntary employee or member of an organization  then you buy into its vision and values and mission or you are a square peg in a round hole.  I think a city is different than that and we see it in Corvallis all the time.    People continue to live here even if they disagree or even if they are apathetic about issues.  

So, I agree that our constant striving for consensus and reluctance to seriously confront some brutal realities hinders the city in moving forward.  But, the direction in which we are moving (what our vision is as a city) isn&#039;t shared widely enough in order for Collins&#039; remarks to be as relevant to us.  

I think people want lower crime, clean air and water, less traffic, parks, places to buy what they need and want at reasonable prices,  jobs and job security, good healthcare and schools and affordable housing in whatever price range means &quot;affordable&quot; for them.  But is that sufficiently shared to paint a vision for Corvallis?  Isn&#039;t that what any city wants?  

So we state our cases &quot;violently&quot; and with all the facts we can muster and decisions are made.  But, then what?  Many key issues are settled at the ballot box or in court and not in city council meeting discussions or on a website or at a civic club meeting.  

So I am somewhat pessimistic that even violent serious disagreement with clear statements of fact can lead a community forward unless there is some overarching sense of purpose and vision in the wider community shared by enough people to make a difference.  Do we have that vision?  I don&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Collins seems to me to be echoing a key Intel Corporation employee value called, &#8220;Disagree and commit!&#8221;  What I hear him saying is that in organizations on the way down there is no strong disagreement.  Intel stresses the importance of disagreement &#8211; presenting your reasoned case for X  and presenting it to whoever needs to hear it and then once a decision is made the employee commits to the result &#8211; no matter what it may be.  </p>
<p>In other words you can violently disagree basing your case on the facts as you know them, but you remain within the organization even if your case isn&#8217;t adopted by the organization.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that is fully transferable to a community.  Granted, a community is an organization, in a sense.  But, Corvallis, like any city lacks shared vision and values.  Corvallis doesn&#8217;t have a mission as an organization (at least a good one) does.  When you&#8217;re a voluntary employee or member of an organization  then you buy into its vision and values and mission or you are a square peg in a round hole.  I think a city is different than that and we see it in Corvallis all the time.    People continue to live here even if they disagree or even if they are apathetic about issues.  </p>
<p>So, I agree that our constant striving for consensus and reluctance to seriously confront some brutal realities hinders the city in moving forward.  But, the direction in which we are moving (what our vision is as a city) isn&#8217;t shared widely enough in order for Collins&#8217; remarks to be as relevant to us.  </p>
<p>I think people want lower crime, clean air and water, less traffic, parks, places to buy what they need and want at reasonable prices,  jobs and job security, good healthcare and schools and affordable housing in whatever price range means &#8220;affordable&#8221; for them.  But is that sufficiently shared to paint a vision for Corvallis?  Isn&#8217;t that what any city wants?  </p>
<p>So we state our cases &#8220;violently&#8221; and with all the facts we can muster and decisions are made.  But, then what?  Many key issues are settled at the ballot box or in court and not in city council meeting discussions or on a website or at a civic club meeting.  </p>
<p>So I am somewhat pessimistic that even violent serious disagreement with clear statements of fact can lead a community forward unless there is some overarching sense of purpose and vision in the wider community shared by enough people to make a difference.  Do we have that vision?  I don&#8217;t know.</p>
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